With an Objective Master

K says:
Ram, I was listening to The dark side of the moon… many of their songs too are like one long single piece of music, aren’t they?
R says:
yes, it is like a trance
K says:
of course. One song flows into another without a break… I kinda liked it
K says:
the ones I like the most are from the Division Bell.. where the song “Take it back” flows into “Coming back to life”
R says:
yes the album is fluid as it revolves around the theme of life & its mysteries
K says:
Yeah
R says:
if u read the bhagvat gita in the light of the album, then the album gives new meaning to music
K says:
Yeah, I’ve read it.. Only that I’m an atheist  .
R says:
it is not about GOD, as even i am an ignostic (an ignostic maintains that they cannot even say whether he/she is a theist or an atheist until a better definition of theism is put forth), but about the logic behind the working of the universe for a human mind
R says:
all that u eat, everyone u meet, all that u touch, all that u feel- in the number Eclipse tells us that that every single thing that the mind attaches itself to becomes the mind itself
K says:
True. becomes the self or a part of the identity of this “self”
R says:
the whole quest is to know what do we mean by I. It is the body as it is the most gross thing we can associate with. the mind in more evolved state where it shows that the mind is a reflection of the external universe(vice-verse is also true). but the best part of I is the self which very few of us ever get to know.
R says:
This self if disconnected from the physical body and mind becomes GOD or good orderly direction.
K says:
I agree in part with the first paragraph that the whole quest is to know what we mean by the word “I”. If I may speak my mind here  — The mind is a faculty to understand the perception of the universe provided by the senses. It is not a reflection, it’s an attempt at its evaluation. And the efficacy of the body lies in the degree of accuracy of this mind’s attempt…
K says:
please give me a minute.. this is getting interesting
R says:
here I have to mention that the body & mind are not separate entities but reflections on to each other. In alternate medicines this is noticed & a lot of bodily ailments are cured by relevant corrective thought. In fact, in the best known meditation technique-vipasana,  given by Buddha, this aspect is exploited & one is expected to just watch the sensations without reaction & if properly done the seeds of samskara
R says:
or habits of mind which are embedded in the body dissolve in the process cleansing the mind. since the mind is always unstable & not in our grasp (as it is in space-time), Buddha choose the reverse method to tackle the mind. he advocated to start from the known, the body to clean the mind & reach the undefined which is beyond the tool called mind & which is the source of all
K says:
It sounds alright when we’ve assumed that the mind needs cleaning. But by what standard did Buddha or anyone decide what part to clean from it and what part was good to be kept as-is?
K says:
It’s important to follow principles and measure things
K says:
but it’s equally important to gauge those standards first
K says:
I have absolutely no opinion about Buddha as I’ve not learned much about him.. therefore, these are just questions I’m hoping you’d be able to answer
R says:
in the state of no mind or close to it we start being in the here & now, this dissociates the past from future thus karma has no place to stay which leads to synchronicity or instant karma. This is the cleaning we talk about, but then we have the power of choice .
R says:
we start creating our own destiny & are not ruled by fate
R says:
so then we have a choice as to what kind of life we need & also find it happening
K says:
I like the prospect of creating our own destiny… but what about the validity of this claim, in the state of no mind or close to it we start being in the here & now”. How do you know that?
R says:
there is a simple process called synchronicity that takes place in here & now. The world reflects our thoughts, u must have experienced it, where one is humming a song & in few seconds it happens on the TV, the newspaper syncs with our thoughts, people around behave or say things that we are thinking at that moment. Clairvoyance, telepathy are examples of this . Lot of people use a popular method of
R says:
opening any page of a book(religious or not) & the answer to their issues happens just like that on the pages opened by random. I hope i am making sense. Sometimes i have need for money & the mind gives a negative answer to its possibility, & the solution comes unaware from unexpected quarters
R says:
but then there is a caution: the mind sees what it wants to see.
K says:
This is where I part ways. The possibilities in the world are in the degree of billions. Anyone can have facts and distort them to mean anything they want. For example, I can get the details of how many people died the day you were born. With the population of the world, I’m quite sure the number would be staggering… Then it depends on you and I to make whatever we make of it…
K says:
Most “alternate” means of cognition rely on the ambiguity of such situations to survive so I have little to no inclination towards them other than that which is logically derivable and can be physically connected
R says:
i agree, it is dicey. as in any experiment when others too perceive the same then at least it is not a figment of the mind
K says:
that’s not the point.. it’s not about what others can or cannot perceive… Einstein perceived things no one could, yet they are truer than more religious beliefs that are being “perceived” by millions in the world today
K says:
It’s about what standards you set to ensure that those perceptions have a connect with reality
K says:
a reality that is independent of our faculty to perceive it
K says:
even if we don’t, it will not cease to exist… that reality should be the only standard by which we gauge the correctness of perceptions…
K says:
Again, just to make myself clear, I’m only trying to discuss and understand what merit lies in the statements you’ve said… it’s not a quest to make you believe in my thoughts…
R says:
i do agree with u,
R says:
i have spent last 14 years on this issue to only come to a conclusion that it is a silence within that is the doorway to the undefined & the realm of infinite possibilities. I respect your queries since i would be more than happy to know if there is a kink in my comprehension of the universe
K says:
I’m glad you do. My first concern about any theory is not in its application — that will depend on how strong we are to apply it on our lives — but in its validation. Because once someone has accepted that 2+2=5, no matter how flawless and diligent one is in its application, they will always get it wrong
K says:
So, tell me, (if you have the time), where does this start? As per your learning, tell me about the first thing: why formulate this code in the first place? then, once you have established that you do need to formulate this, then what is it you’re trying to achieve? then “how do you know what you do will achieve what you want”

K says:
http://myunsaidthoughts.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/my-encounter-with-an-unselfish-person/
R says:
seeing the layout of your site & clarity of thought proves there are are no cobwebs in your mind. u know : that’s all
K says:

R says:
In objectivity alone comes the hurdle of comprehending what is selfish & what is selfless. In a subjective world to which i belong there is no room for selflessness. Every thing good bad & ugly is done only for the self
K says:
LOL
K says:
the problem with subjectivity for me is that it negates the mind — the other word for “self” for me
K says:
brb
R says:
well here comes the bomb, use the mind to know the mind, filter it till all reasons for it to exist are taken care off & one develops the let go attitude or attitude of acceptance, there comes a state where the mind is not obsessed with the past or the future but is only in the present. with no strings attached & no desire for outcome there comes a state where the mind ceases to function & the
R says:
state of no mind is reached
R says:
then in that vacant state one sees that the whole of reality is but an extension of the impersonal mind & the magic of synchronicity takes place Continuously.

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